Mike Hendrix (00:00)
Hello, I am Mike Hendrix from smbGOLF

And today my guests are Jonathan Wride from TenFore Golf and Taylor McCulley from CivicPlus. And this is the Tech Caddie Podcast.

Taylor, welcome to our podcast, Welcome to Golf.

Taylor McCulley (00:33)
Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here.

Mike Hendrix (00:35)
Well, we'll we're excited to have a conversation with you and Jonathan. You've been on the podcast before. you guys broke some big news less than a month ago. And then I saw you at Golf Inc. and I thought this would make for a good podcast episode. So I appreciate you carving out some time for us and welcome back to the podcast.

Jonathan Wride (00:54)
Well thanks very much and and any time I'm always always like to talk to you, Mike.

Mike Hendrix (00:59)
Well, thank you. Thank you. So, Taylor, on this podcast, it's called Tech Caddie. we talk about golf technology, and sometimes there's personal stories that we get into, and sometimes we just get into the tech and that kind of thing. I will say we we CivicPlus doesn't come up a lot. And that's not to say that I have a company called smbGOLF, and we track

the technology that golf courses use. So I have known about CivicPlus for a very long time. I know you guys do over 200 golf course websites. I, I, I understand who you are, but we don't do this a lot here, but I think it would be good if you introduced the company to the viewership. I'm not totally sure how many people tune into this podcast will know who CivicPlus is. So maybe you can give us a rundown of who CivicPlus is.

Taylor McCulley (01:47)
Sure, I'd be happy to. CivicPlus is a large organization that offers softwares for local government organizations. And so we're addressing lots of different departments. my specialty is parks and recreation, which is what we'll talk a little bit about today. but we also offer websites, we offer compliance software, all different kinds of solutions for local government organizations. And our goal is to make government work better. And so

That is what we do every single day, putting out softwares that solve problems for our local government organizations.

Mike Hendrix (02:19)
You guys are a top one hundred Gov Tech company. So we we talk a lot about golf tech here, but you guys are in this sector of of Gov Tech. I think you're based in Kansas, if I'm not mistaken.

Taylor McCulley (02:30)
Yes, our headquarters are in Manhattan, Kansas, but our team is spread out across the whole country.

Mike Hendrix (02:35)
Right, right. Okay. So thanks for the overview. Now we again we don't and we haven't seen people do this before, Jonathan, as far as I know. I I yeah, I don't look, there was a company a long time ago called Active. And Active certainly played a role in this municipal space, et cetera, et cetera. And then ultimately GolfNow bought Active. But Jonathan,

We haven't seen a company like yours do a partnership like this. And and really the the for we're kind of not sharing what happened. You guys announced a pretty cohesive partnership, where I think CivicPlus is gonna do some of the selling for you, Jonathan, and they're gonna bring your operating platform to more theoretically more municipal golf courses in North America.

Jonathan Wride (03:25)
Yeah, you're exactly right. This this partnership discussion started several years ago about what we were doing about and especially as TenFore is growing and you know and the solution that we've built. And we've had such success in the municipal market, you know, with like the city of San Diego and Houston and Cedar Rapids and Palm Beach Gardens and so on. It's Montgomery County. Memphis. Memphis, exactly.

Mike Hendrix (03:46)
I

don't want you to sell yourself short here, Jonathan. Okay. So

Jonathan Wride (03:49)
Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Amarillo, right? So we we have a lot of cities and then with their connection to the municipal governments, it we knew two years ago it was a natural fit, So we took a lot of time to put this together the correct way to see what the partnership would look like, how it would act, how it would work, how it would benefit everyone, especially the municipalities that we're talking to. And CivicPlus reach is hard to beat.

they have thousands and thousands of government, governments that they work with. So for us, and especially with their parks and rec, it was natural. And I believe that, you know, I know that they told me along the way, one the top requests they always had was when are you going to get into golf software? And that's how the partnership started and that's how the discussions and it was just a perfect fit.

Mike Hendrix (04:36)
Well, Taylor, I d I think that's a natural question, right? Because you're n the associate product manager. You're I think it's fair to say you're the lead on golf tech, I think at this point in terms of of CivicPlus.

Taylor McCulley (04:49)
Yes, yes, that is true.

Mike Hendrix (04:50)
And so the natural question is, why didn't you build it yourself? Right. Well like why do a partnership rather than just build it yourself? Yeah.

Taylor McCulley (04:57)
That's totally a fair question. golf is its own specialty, and TenFore in particular is built for golf people by golf people. And that's something we loved about the TenFore organization in general. And it's something that aligns with how we operate on the parks and rec side. For our recreation management software, we're we're built by parks and rec people for parks and rec people. and so it aligned well. And rather than us building something second best.

we partnered with TenFore with a company and an organization that is the expert in golf. And so for a department, that means one contract, one agreement, they don't need a separate procurement process. We handle all of that part. And then TenFore, the experts, handle implementation, training and support. And so it just it just made sense for what we're trying to deliver to our customers.

Mike Hendrix (05:47)
Yeah, that's interesting because I I knew that the I I had read the procurement word and that made a lot of sense to me. I knew immediately that meant like, one contract, right? And then CivicPlus is gonna pay 10 for them. But Jonathan, and you and I have talked about this in the past, I mean, who would be better tied in to all the RFPs in North America than CivicPlus, right? So just the intel of knowing that an opportunity is out there, I would think is is quite an advantage in the partnership.

Jonathan Wride (06:16)
Yeah, it's tremendous. their connection is second to none. And soon as they announced it, and we've learned firsthand, the number of cities that came to them and said, Finally, you know, we've been waiting for this. Can we talk to TenFore? Will you put us in touch? Will you guys talk about the product with us? And it's just been consistent since we started. so we're all super happy, obviously, right off the bat. But I do believe it's delivering a strong need. And they already have the relationship, they're already trusted with these cities.

So for them to be up for us to be an extension of CivicPlus in that regard, well, we can handle the golf software. And as the breadth of our services is pretty wide. so we really fill a nice gap for them. And it's just, it's it's just really a good partnership. Yeah.

Mike Hendrix (06:57)
And I would think too, I totally get what you're saying about the relationship, and I agree, but there's a whole bunch of sellers that are watching this right now saying, yeah, but they already got approved. Like I think that that's a real value point that CivicPlus is already an approved vendor at that city, town, et cetera. and to kind of already be through that hoop or over that speed bump, that's that's a nice advantage to have. So congrats to both of you guys for putting the deal together.

Jonathan Wride (07:26)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor McCulley (07:26)
Thank you.

Mike Hendrix (07:28)
So, so Taylor, tell us about let's just talk about a golf course that you guys serve. And we can just call we'll just call it Deer Creek. Like we'll just make something up. But you know, Deer Creek today is using your website product. Maybe they're using some registration product that you have or something like that. Certainly the the city or the town that runs or owns Deer Creek, they're probably a CivicPlus customer as well. In that

world or that environment, what what are you delivering? what is your product set that you're typically delivering to these municipalities?

Taylor McCulley (08:03)
Yeah, so for our partnership it's it's most aligned with the parks and recreation software because what we're seeing is more and more our parks and recreation departments are taking over the munis, the municipal golf courses, and they are having to run and operate them. And that can include, you know, the golf courses, the pro shops, the restaurants, etc. and so

Where we're seeing TenFore fit into that is obviously handling all of their golf operations. and then with CivicPlus, we can run their Parks and Rec software, we can run their asset management, we can run their city websites, et cetera. the list goes on.

Mike Hendrix (08:43)
For a novice like me, you say we can run their parks and rec software, what what is that? I guess it's basketball court reservations, it's maybe I have to become a card holder of the town every year. What what is that software?

Taylor McCulley (08:58)
A great question. So our recreation management software covers tons of stuff, but my personal favorites would be membership management, including golf memberships. We do point of sale, we do registration where you're signing up for your kids' basketball camp or yoga classes. we do facility reservations like you want to rent out a meeting room at the community center or a field for your softball game. we do equipment rentals and

all different kinds of operations that support our parks and ex apartments specifically, but those are the some those are some of the best ones.

Mike Hendrix (09:33)
So, Jonathan, obviously in our world, this golf tech world, payments have become just such a colossal piece of the business, right? And of the equation, almost you could say, when people decide who they're going to use and et cetera. And I'm I'm seeing tee sheet companies now start to fall under large, large providers of tech, fall under their payments, you know, system. And I'm curious, what's TenFore gonna do?

when it's when the deal is a CivicPlus deal. Like are you are you gonna kinda piggyback on the CivicPlus payment rails or how's that gonna work?

Jonathan Wride (10:10)
Yeah, no, we we kept our payment specific to TenFore's platform. We have so many moving parts. that's not to say that's not a discussion at some point, because we have discussed it at some point. but you know, for us internally at the point in time of where we are, it's just far better for us to keep that independent. And so the payments, the complete package that any course would get from TenFore, we wanted to ensure that every municipality of the CivicPlus were to get everything that we offer.

And that was the best way for us to do it. So that's what we've kept with. We do our own pay we process our own print payment and buy service still.

Mike Hendrix (10:45)
I say, so you'll be five serve. Taylor, I mean you guys process a lot. Just Parks and Rec does a billion dollars in processing, right? So like it's a it's a big business for sure. but I did read and I did some research on the CivicPlus side, there is some flexibility in payments. You there are, you will let a town, it look, it's gotta be one of maybe five or something, but there's some choice that's still available in payments there.

Taylor McCulley (11:08)
That is true. and we do work with FiServe as well. So if they if both the municipality golf course wants to use Fiserv and then the Parks direct software wants to use Fiserv too, that's totally an option. But we do have multiple choices people can choose from. Yes.

Mike Hendrix (11:22)
Nice, nice, nice. Jonathan, it was it was good to see you at Golf Inc. in Hilton Head. you and you mentioned a little bit ago that the product has made some some advancements. I I saw a feature that you guys rolled out that I didn't think maybe got as much fanfare as I thought. I love your buddies feature. So I want you to talk about that and explain the value of that. But just go through the product a little bit.

And maybe share with us well, a year ago we were here. Now we're loading up for the 2027 PGA show. And guess what I'm gonna bring to the, you know, like give us a feel for where you guys are.

Jonathan Wride (11:57)
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Yeah. And it's it's amazing, right? In a year of AI, it's almost like the year of the dog, right? So you're at least seven years beyond where we were this time last year. yeah, we we've accelerated significantly. As you know, I joined this company in 23 as the CEO and the investor, and the whole goal initially was stability and scalability and building the platform out. we had some very nice success. And then it was okay, now let's improve our features, even though they were great.

as we're we're built the same as Toast, right? We're a native Android platform whereby admin access is through web and consumers access through web and app. we're about to release compose multi-platform. that will allow us to be on any device. So now we can work on Android, we can work on iOS, and we can work on Windows and PC. so that's a big step for us.

But again, it's it's increasing the TAM, broadening the market that is able to use our product. And we do things, everything we do is driven by the client itself by asking us what to do. we've got AI as as as others have and my peers have, but we've truly stepped into AI internally. And I'm not sure if it was you, Mike, or I think it was you, because I you know I listen to you a lot as you know about what you say, and because you have not so much knowledge on the industry.

There was something about how AI is used internally for the company, how are you using it for your internal purposes on performance and output and verifications and QA and all those type of things and verifications. And then how is it how are you using it or providing it to the client? So we use it a lot internally. It's increased output quite a bit. And then what we do also is also look at how we can make the job easier for the golf courses. Everybody knows labor costs are getting higher and higher and pretty consistently.

So if we can save, a new hire or help a course facility, our kiosks, for example, getting people away from the desk, allowing them to check in, order food, buy retail, do whatever they want on on the app, they on the kiosk. They can also do that on their app, right? One single tab. We hear a lot in the market about all in one, I'm an all in one, you're an all in one. Well, the reality is we're 100% proprietary. That's not through integrations. We always say native where it counts, connected when needed.

we're not afraid to integrate, which we do. We have a lot of integrations out there as well. And so that's coming. But with the AI, we did we started in the accounting side to help the accountants. So we always said if you can keep the accountants happy, you're on good st stretch. they're investing,

Mike Hendrix (14:24)
Yeah.

Jonathan Wride (14:26)
three dollars and five cents and they can't find it. We'll go into the AI inspector and say, Hey, listen, I'm where am I where's this three dollars and five cents? That's kind of where we started and it'll tell them where is where that's missing from, right?

Mike Hendrix (14:37)
So Jonathan, is that a is that a tool name AI inspector? that's a that's a thing inside of TenFore?

Jonathan Wride (14:42)
That is correct, yes. Nice.

Mike Hendrix (14:44)
Nice. I noticed too, we haven't talked about buddies yet, so I'm not gonna let you off the hook there, but I did notice too, you now refer to your tee sheet as an AI tee sheet, which I thought was interesting.

Jonathan Wride (14:55)
Yeah,

it it's because one thing we did, Mike, we added AI tee time scheduler, right? That's the first step. again, everything we do is based on I don't ever do anything to put it on the shelf. It's based on input and we listen very, very closely and work very closely with our clients. And we truly believe, I know others say, but I truly believe I don't want to be your vendor. I'm your partner. And if I'm your partner, you're gonna bring ideas to me, bring thoughts to me, complaints to me. Let's talk about improving certain things.

And one of the what biggest ones we had, it was like because a lot of people have different tee time schedules, a lot of schedules some people have. So we say, well, how do we make that easy? Well, you can either speak it right through common word into AI or just type it in. But you can sit there and type, hey, listen, I want 10 in it, 10 minute intervals throughout the week. I do a Thursday and Tuesday afternoon shotgun. I want 10, eight minutes on the weekends, dah dah dah. I start at this time, end at this time. They talk it in, they hit enter.

And we didn't do it behind the scenes because a lot of AI is always done behind and it gives you the result. We put it right on the side so they can see it working. And it's very cool. And then all of a sudden they say, here it is. And then they can review it, make sure, and they can literally push it live. We're taking that into inventory and purchasing and building so that AI solution. And then lastly, on the AI front, one thing we've done, which will launch next month, and I'm actually absolutely gonna have you give it a run, is our act AI client access to our MCP server.

that's been almost out of beta. we have quite a few courses, a handful of courses testing it, and they're pushing us. but I'll give you a perfect example, Mike. We had a call, a client call in the other day and said, Hey, listen, can I get a report that tells me how many tee times I didn't sell since January first? Well, normally, right, we'd have to go into the data, do some research. We literally went into the MCP server, said, Hey, how many rounds of golf were unsold?

Not blocked. If they were blocked, that doesn't count. Da da da. Produce the report. And then obviously because it's beta, we have to go back and verify it. And the one particular course goes, you gotta be kidding me. And it literally took a few minutes, right? So that's where all of this is going. so very excited about it. but we keep pushing the card and that's our job.

Mike Hendrix (17:03)
Ta Taylor, let's talk about AI in a larger corporation. You guys are you're like a thousand employee kind of company, right? You're not even 300 or 400. It's like a thousand people, right? Typically you start to get into that thousand number, and there are gonna be rules on how you can use AI as you know an account executive or as a whatever, you know, different job titles and different well allowances.

So I still have some connection to the corporate world here in central Ohio. I talk to guys that like they're only allowed to use Copilot, right? And and like we just kind of know that they're limited then on the benefits that they can get out of AI at work. Talk about whatever Civic Plus's policy is on how your employees are allowed to use AI.

Taylor McCulley (17:52)
It's been it's been kind of magical working for CivicPlus in the the age of AI because our company has fully embraced it. we have been moving and changing things as quickly as AI is moving and changing things, and we have access to the best AI tools that you can have right now. throughout the company, we all use the same

Claude as our our AI agents. We did start with Copilot, but we've we've evolved over time and gotten to Claude now. and

Mike Hendrix (18:21)
turns

of evolution generally leads to winning. That's what we've seen in the human race. So good for you on doing

Taylor McCulley (18:27)
Yes. And and our leadership is very encouraging for everybody to find ways to use AI in in in a positive and impactful way, not just to say we're using it, but to actually make a difference in our staff's lives and then in turn in our customers' lives. so gosh, it seems every week we have some new tip or trick to use in Claude that enhances things or makes things faster.

Mike Hendrix (18:51)
It

sounds to me like p you know, part of the story there is th that they don't have you guys handcuffed, that you are kind of like really leaning in and getting the full benefit of frankly, of being able to be curious, right? Of the experimentation, all that kind of stuff. So that's great to hear. That's great.

Taylor McCulley (19:08)
Absolutely. And of course there's still, rules and policies we have to follow to keep data secure and to keep things where they need to be. But in general, within the confines of our rules, we are encouraged to explore and expand and try things out and experiment. So it's great.

Mike Hendrix (19:23)
That's great. Okay, Jonathan, tell us about buddies.

Jonathan Wride (19:27)
I

knew you wouldn't forget. buddies is is something that continues to grow with us. And what buddies is, it's it's in your app or on your online booking portal, right? For the consumer. And so I can invite anyone I want. I could invite Taylor and you to it. you have to accept. So I just can't invite the whole world, right? So you accept and you want to be part of my buddy list. And let's say I have 20 buddies on the list. So now all of a sudden I can literally book the tee time for Saturday morning at 1010. I can send it out to my buddies.

I'd say, hey, listen, I'm playing at 1010, first three in, let's go. Well, they can literally hit claim, so they claim it. And the one thing we just pushed as well is if it's a prepaid tee time, I can require them to pay. So there's been a lot of work since my days at my previous company. it was always trying to solve for that person, the the book, or not being on the financial hook for all the tee times. So now you can sit there, they can hit claim, they can pay it, and then also once they get to the course.

they can online check in, right? So they don't have to go into the Pro Shop and you'll say, somebody's well, wait a minute, we want them in there because they're going to buy shirts. I'm telling you, most residents are not buying shirts. They're coming and they want to get to the first tee, they want to play golf, they want to play quick and they want to go home. so you can do that. And then what's nice about it and it's fun is once we now let's say our group has that tee time, we have a chat in there as well. So we can communicate, rib each other or saying, hey, what time you're getting there, what kind of games are we going to play when we get there? And if you two are at the T box and I'm not there yet.

We can literally you can look and say, well, he's checked in. I can see him. So he couldn't have checked in unless he's on the course because that's geofenced. So we do a lot of fun things like that. And that just adds, we do full F and B ordering on our app, full e-commerce on our app, full profile management, rain checks, gift cards, punch cards, all of it is is through our app. We really have built that out. That's one of the biggest things when you asked me from a year ago. Our app this year compared to last year is not on the same planet. It's it's just tremendously advanced.

Mike Hendrix (21:21)
For those of the people that are watching the podcast versus listening to it, we're just showing our updated golf course tech reviews site and all these things that Jonathan was talking about, that can now be found in this whole compare environment, right? Where really you can put TenFore up against other tee sheet POS providers and you can start to see these things get called out. So hopefully people will take advantage of that, Jonathan. And it's I think it's a good way to, you know, learn about.

w what you guys have and kind of what what sets you guys apart. let's talk more if we can about support. Because I know support has kind of been a cornerstone for you, Jonathan. and I'm curious, I mean, I think a lot of people are gonna ask this question, right? Well, how is support going to work? If I am a CivicPlus golf course or customer, you know, re parks and rec. Taylor, did you know in Columbus, Ohio,

They call it recreation and parks. It's like the only place where I get tripped up in it. And I happen to live in Columbus, Ohio. But anyway, talk about how you guys are going to dole out support and how you're going to divvy that up and how you're going to work through it.

Taylor McCulley (22:28)
Yeah, absolutely. so for our TenFore customers working with CivicPlus, we will keep the support of the golf course with TenFore. of course they can reach out to us, but we will get them in contact with the right people at TenFore. Jonathan, do you want to speak about how your support process works?

Jonathan Wride (22:45)
For sure. Yeah. you're right, Mike. And we hear it over and over about support. There was something right recently that came out about one of the number one reasons people leave or something, one of them was support, right? Or they look for support. Our three are always support, innovation, and payment reliability. Those are the three top white people look for a provider. but in support, we absolutely still believe, you know, it's one of the things in the world of AI and all that stuff, we believe in a human. if they need to talk to someone, they need to talk to someone.

so we do that. Obviously, we have full ticketing systems, email systems, we have AI systems coming in, which should be in next month, this month or next month, but by the end of the year, we always judge our years by the PGA show. So we'll definitely have it by then. but yeah, it's important to us, and Mike, you know the industry better than anyone. When do things normally happen? 8 30, Saturday morning, and then you're gonna send a ticket in, and then maybe you'll get an answer tomorrow.

That doesn't work. they need to pick it up. Hey, what's going on? Is there everything okay? Or this? A lot of times it's just maybe a a setting on their side or things not big, but it they need to talk. So support is paramount to us. CivicPlus shares that with us. And it's why we get along so well. We share a lot of the same values. I always think they've got those Midwest values, right? We like to think we're southwest close to Midwest values, but it's important to us and then support is critical. So yeah, we believe if they need help that very second.

They have a human and we cover all time zones. We have support in each time zone.

Mike Hendrix (24:12)
Jonathan Taylor and I, we just live in these little flyover states and you guys in these big metro areas. We get it. We're we just want our little slice of the pie. And if you can answer the phone, we call. We really appreciate it. it's interesting what you said about support. So I just hosted a town hall in Pennsylvania. And we had 30 golf courses in the room. and we it was we tried to make the room very interactive. It was about a 90-minute town hall.

And Jonathan support was it wasn't number one, it was like number one, number two, and number three. It was literally an operator that said, Mike, we would not switch if if it broke a lot, but they always called us back. And and I thought that that was very telling, right? It seems like the operator in twenty twenty-six knows technology will get challenged occasionally, right? It's just it's just like a fact of life.

And they're they're actually their expectations are not unreasonable. They just want you to answer the phone when they call. And so that was one of the overwhelming takeaways from the room was you gotta call me back. And we had several providers there. Steve Slocum from TenFore was in the room, and and you could tell I mean think he had great conversations that that looked really good, but it was just super interesting to

Watch the room when when I said, what's the most important thing you want from a technology provider? First it was quiet. You could see a lot of people making eye contact with the people around the room. And then finally a guy raised his hand and it kind and then they all wanted to talk about it. Right. And so anytime I think a tech provider in golf can tap into superior support, I I can't imagine you're wasting dollars. I think it's the right move.

Jonathan Wride (26:01)
Yeah, again, hundred percent agree with you. It's what we hear as well and what is so important. And you get a lot of things a lot of times where people and we all do with that, just forget golf going outside the golf. our support is this, our support's that. But as soon as you need something, they're not there. And I think the important and the comfort is I just need to know you're there. and if something happens to me, and that's what the thing is with us, we'll pick up the phone. I'll pick up the phone. if someone needs something, it doesn't matter to us.

Our customer support and service and our clients are everything to us. So for us, we will take care of them any which way we can. And you're absolutely right. support and just being there and not just a ticket system that's not going to get answered, even if it's they can do it in hours. Well, it doesn't help when you got a line through the door, and then and something's going wrong. so yeah, a hundred percent agree on that.

Mike Hendrix (26:46)
We Taylor, I don't know if you guys do a public status page at C. Okay, yeah. so we had this whole thing happen, Taylor. I would say maybe it's been four weeks now, where really the biggest provider of golf technology in North America, the credit cards, went down on Saturday, which is obviously an incredibly trying thing in the golf industry. And it just to t to Jonathan's point, it does happen at the worst time. But

We had some operators that we talked to because we have we service golf courses too, Taylor. As a matter of fact, we build websites. So but I know your websites are lovely. So but but anyway, more and more operators, and I hope everybody listens to this. This is just a good little tip. More and more operators today have like a square reader on the side or some other way to take a credit card that has nothing to do with their point of sale system.

and they can, you know, have they can be up and running in like 30 seconds. and I actually think like as all the payments now have gone plastic, right? There's very, very little cash left left in golf. it's a good idea for all golf courses. I mean, we're talking about $59 here, right? Like this is not a a real investment of money to have a backup plan. $59, and you can have a reader.

in your golf shop just in case something goes wrong. I don't think that that's a bad idea. Probably makes sense to make that investment.

Taylor McCulley (28:13)
Yeah, yeah, sounds like that.

Jonathan Wride (28:14)
I can add one thing to that. there's a large municipality in Texas that is a client of ours. And about the second week, I I think it was literally the second week live with us, they call in a panic. Wi Fi's out, right? They can't take it. And this is high velocity. They can't take anything. Austin said to them, Wait, wait, you have flex devices for a backup right in your to come desk drawers. And they're like, Where? Because he went down for that particular

That's in Texas. Yeah. They spill it out. You're fully operational. The entire system, because we use a Clover Flex, but we don't use their software, right? We just use the device. Right. Yeah. That's so they got on there, they have full cell service, they have full battery backup just in case the power goes on. They didn't miss a beat. And if you've ever heard relief in someone's voice, this was a Saturday, by the way, of course, right? Yep. And didn't miss a beat. So it had a backup device in the desk, ready to go.

Mike Hendrix (29:12)
Yeah. Yeah. the the the flip side of that is you try to write everybody's credit card number down. You hope you have four hours before they leave the property to see. I mean, it's it's it's bad. It's terrible digital hospitality. There's nothing good about that. and so I guess what what I'm trying to get to is it can cost you a real amount of revenue. You're not gonna miss two or three hundred bucks. You can you're missing thousands of dollars of revenue.

in a short amount of time. so that's how important that that can be. so Jonathan, will CivicPlus come to the PGA show? Will this be a co branded bru booth? What's this gonna what's the plan for January?

Jonathan Wride (29:52)
Wow, I never thought about that. Thanks, Mike. possibly, you never know, right? We'll now we're gonna talk about it, Taylor. we just did our first event together. I couldn't be there because I was with you at Golf Inc., but it was the National Parks and Rec up in Philly, and our guys were in the booth with Parks, with Parks and Rec, with CivicPlus and had an amazing time. I'm telling you, it took two years because we were trying to make sure we did the right things together. They have an amazing team. So our our guys were in the booth with them.

And just had a great show. Right? Probably shouldn't have let that out there. but they had a great show. And so this yeah, that's a good thing to discuss of breath having them if they wanted to come down. They're always welcome to come down to the PGA show.

Taylor McCulley (30:32)
Love to.

Mike Hendrix (30:34)
I would think that that's your Super Bowl, that show that was in Philly this year, Taylor. That's gotta be the biggest show that that you guys deal with.

Taylor McCulley (30:41)
Hundred percent the biggest show. Yes, it is amazing and it was so fun to have the TenFore team there. We even had a little putting green and people came by and chatted with us and TenFore was doing demos and very well received and just fabulous.

Mike Hendrix (30:56)
Taylor, give me your in your your kind of reaction to the TenFore kiosk. Because I heard some people talk about the kiosk a couple weeks ago in South Carolina. I think the kiosk is, I mean, I don't mind saying I'm wrong. I think the kiosk is maybe performing better than I thought it was going to. I don't mean in terms of how it works. I mean is it in terms of operator adoption. so tell me about your impressions of that.

Taylor McCulley (31:20)
I'm actually on the same page as you. we hear requests for kiosks here and there. but and I've been a little bit skeptical about it, but seeing it in person and seeing the the response to a kiosk has been eye opening and it does seem like it's obviously Jonathan and his team listen because they they hit the mark there and people are really excited about it.

Mike Hendrix (31:41)
when we do talk about these flyover states, not to not to make light of it, there there's a bunch of golf courses in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas that are one person operations. And you actually start to think about the kiosk as like, mm-hmm, that's actually a legit problem solver now. in all of these municip and by the way, most of those golf courses in Iowa, Nebraska, K

Those are municipal golf courses, right? You don't s you don't find a lot of people owning a golf course in Nebraska that has one employee or something. that's usually a municipal setup. and so that the kiosk actually becomes a pretty significant solution and part of the of the product stack.

Taylor McCulley (32:22)
Yeah. And it it fits right in with trends we're seeing in Parks Nurk in general, which is staff needing to be able to do more with less staff, less time, less money. And it it really allows people to just take their hands off and just let the customers manage things on their own when they can.

Mike Hendrix (32:40)
Yeah. Jonathan, does that kiosk ever d I'm I'm talking about evolution here. Does that become an all weather kiosk, you think, someday where where you know, the golf shop is closed, but you can still check in and and pay for your round?

Jonathan Wride (32:56)
Yeah, it's funny. I was just gonna add that we've had a couple of requests for that. the one particular gentleman owns a nine-hole golf course and it's not staffed, which is interesting, right? He just wants memberships, they can play it, and he wanted a kiosk and he wanted it for the outside. It's undercover, but it's outside. And there are they're not cheap, I will tell you, but they do have the fully encased ones for that. so they can do that. But one thing we made sure as well is anything you can do on the kiosk, you can do on our phone.

Right, you can do on the the the consumer's phone. They can book in, they can buy food, they can order, they can create one tab, they can pay for their tournaments. So, but I think visually, and when someone goes into a pro shop, it allows them to be pushed, not pushed, but moved over so they can say, Yeah, I just want in and out. I'm gonna get a burger, it'll meet me on the first hall, I'm out of here. See you later, kind of thing. so that's where and I think that for the for the what what Taylor said, then the staff at the course, they get to concentrate on the people that need the help. Or we were taught just talking to a resort that's adding the kiosks.

They said we want to be telling them about the resort, not saying, hey, you owe me, $80 for your tee time or whatever it is, things like that. But absolutely, I believe it goes outside. and because you can put them anywhere. And we do have people starting to put them, they've asked for them down at their entertainment driving ranges because they want them at the end of the entertainment driving range. Even again, you can do it on your phone, but I think it's a point, hey, I'm gonna go order some more beers or I'm gonna order a sandwich. I'm in bay six, da-da-da-da-da.

And then it just gets brought down to you. And then what it does with one of our courses, the the entertainment driving range is not that close to the pro shop. So for orders just to come for people just to walk up and down to take orders and service, to have the self-service component there, I think makes it a lot easier. So then they're just really delivering. And then all of our dive devices, even the F and B ordering on the app, has full tipping on it. So the staff's not losing out or anything like that, they can still fully tip on the devices too.

Mike Hendrix (34:46)
Nice, very nice. Taylor, we'll we'll wrap up here. I don't know if how much of the numbers you watch in in terms of golf. one of the things that it struck me was how many golf courses are actually going away as data centers are built and they need large pieces of property. And it it seems to me that the cla the the one class of public golf courses.

That are not going away, at least not as quickly, are the ones owned by towns and and local governments. Because those governments are committed to cre green space, the maybe the land is not rated commercial, but the but you can have a golf course there because it is owned by the the the town. but I'm curious to know, you know, from both of you, w where do you think we're headed in terms of this kind of like this real?

encroachment on land from these data centers, what happens to more and more public golf, and how do municipalities respond to all that stuff?

Taylor McCulley (35:46)
Yeah. right now the trend we're seeing is an increase in our municipalities taking over municipal golf course spaces. we have not started to see a trend down yet. hopefully it's it stays trending up. we we don't want to lose green space and we'd love for our customers to take over those operations. that's that's kind of what I'm seeing right now, is it's still trending up in the municipal space.

Mike Hendrix (36:07)
It it's interesting the the scenario that you just said, that the golf course becomes a municipal golf course. and I'm not gonna mention any names here. I know of instances where an owner is approached by for for a data center. The owner would prefer the land remain a golf course, but cannot say no to that kind of a number, but actually goes to the to the town. I know of two cases where that owner goes to the town and the town figures out a way.

to take on the golf course, make the owner whole, maybe it's over an extended amount of time, but protect that green space. And so I know of two instances where that's happened in twenty twenty six, actually. Yeah. Jonathan, be it'd be good to hear from you on this as well.

Jonathan Wride (36:49)
Yeah, it's it's it's a a little bit makes you a little bit nervous, right? Because you have to have an entry for golf. a lot of people, can't afford to pay these two hundred and three hundred dollar green fees. And what are the courses being built, right? It's normally because courses are very expensive. one of the gentlemen, I think I forget which MCO was telling me about the price of an irrigation system for an 18-year-old golf course, let alone moving a a piece of dirt, right? So it's very, very difficult to build low cost.

or entry-level golf courses any anymore. So that's the worry. I am glad, that the municipalities are, holding it on to it for green space, for parks and rec space. But as I think it was not too long ago in believing California, they were looking at voting to see if they would get rid of some of the golf courses, I believe, if I remember rightly, because what comes into play next. Water. Right? Yeah and things like that. So yeah, it's a I'm glad really supportive. And I think that's what you know with Taylor and myself and then with CivicPlus.

supporting the municipalities that are supporting golf, making them more profitable, make making them, easier and and better solutions and better experiences for their for their local residents and things like that and for their visitors. I think that's a big key as well. Cause if we can help in any part make those operations more profitable, then we have a better chance of all of these staying around.

Mike Hendrix (38:01)
Yeah, I and I also I just like the fact that I I feel like we're gonna get another 500 golf courses that are on paper tee sheets. We're gonna get them digital through this partnership. So I think that that's gonna be exciting as well. So congratulations to both of you guys. certainly thanks for your time and in coming on. and again, Taylor, welcome to golf. And I hope it's I hope you have a great run in golf. I hope you guys you know.

change some hearts and minds out there. That'd be great for both of you.

Taylor McCulley (38:31)
Thank you so much, Mike and Jonathan. we're so excited about this partnership and we can't wait to see where it goes.

Jonathan Wride (38:37)
Yeah. Thanks so much, Mike and Taylor. Thanks so much. We're super excited too. It's a long time coming, but if the future is any, you know, indication of the initial response or the indication of the r initial response is, I mean, it's gonna be a good one.

Mike Hendrix (38:49)
Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks everybody. This was the Tech Caddie Podcast.

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